Being Liberal and a Progressive in a RED STATE is not an easy thing these days. I started this blog to vent my frustrations on our lives being taken over by right wing conservatives with their propaganda machines. I have also learned an important lesson in the last year, it is that reading is the only way to get real information, you cannot depend on the news you see on TV.

"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE"....Howard Beale (NETWORK)

Wednesday, April 29, 2009

The St Joseph News Press are Complete idiots

How embarrassing is it that your hometown newspaper takes your letter to the editor and completely butchers it before printing. That is what the right wing rag in my hometown does all the time, even when I have requested if they are going to change the content not to print:

here is what they printed:

The other day I watched the governor of Texas, Rick Perry, suggest his state could secede from the union because of our new president and his policies. That was probably one of the most treasonous statements I had ever heard from an elected government official in my lifetime.

That’s when the appalling lack of outrage at statements like Gov. Perry’s and so many others since Barack Obama became president hit me. We’re talking revolution talk here, folks!

I seem to remember back in 2003 or 2004 one of the Dixie Chicks made the statement that she was embarrassed to be from the same state as George Bush. The howl from the right was so loud and so shrill it had to be muffled with ear plugs for weeks. These young women almost lost their careers over one silly sentence.

Whoopi Goldberg made an off-color joke about President Bush and I had to get out the ear plugs again, and this time Ms. Goldberg lost an advertising contract. After that I admit the silence became almost scary. Dissent had been put to bed by the right through the fear of losing one’s livelihood.

I love dissent when I see the need; I wear it on T-shirts and put it on bumper stickers and yard signs. Dissent is our First Amendment right and should be embraced as a part of the greatest country on the face of the earth. Dissent should never be squelched by fear or any other factors. But when dissent takes the form of treasonous statements or hints of revolution rather than policy differences, then that is a whole different story.

Imagine a Democratic governor talking about secession during the Bush years. Or imagine talk show hosts hoping for a Bush fa ilure. Or imagine Vice President Gore had made the statement we were less safe two months into the Bush term as president.

The noise factor from the right would have been elevated day after day, ever louder, building into crescendos until every traitor was identified and the T-word was shouted from every purple mountain’s majesty.

gingernapp, St. Joseph

and here is the original cut and pasted from my comment to the paper:

to the News Press: if you are going to take a letter and butcher it the way you did with mine please from now on don't print it! Original letter:

I have had something stuck in my craw for awhile. At first I thought maybe it was a chicken bone or maybe really fresh bread, you know the kind that used to stick to the roof of your mouth when you were a kid.

So the other day I watched the governor of Texas, Rick Perry, suggest his state could secede from the Union because of our new President and his policies. That was probably one of the most treasonous statements I had ever heard from an elected government official in my lifetime.

That’s when it hit me; the thing I had lodged in my craw wasn’t a piece of food, it was the lack of outrage at statements like Governor Perry’s and so many others since Barack Obama became President. We’re talkin’ revolution talk here folks!

I seem to remember back in 2003 or 4 one of the Dixie Chicks made the statement that she was embarrassed to be from the same state as George Bush. The howl from the right was so loud and so shrill it had to be muffled with ear plugs for weeks. These young women almost lost their careers over one silly sentence.

Whoopi Goldberg made an off-color joke about the W and I had to get out the ear plugs again and this time Miss Goldberg lost an advertising contract. After that I admit the silence became almost scary. Dissent had been put to bed by the right through the fear of losing one’s livelihood.

I love dissent when I see the need; I wear it on tee shirts and put it on bumper stickers and yard signs. Dissent is our 1st Amendment right and should be embraced as a part of the greatest country on the face of the earth. Dissent should never be squelched by fear or any other factors. But when dissent takes the form of treasonous statements or hints of revolution rather than policy differences then that is a whole different story.

Now imagine a Democratic Governor talking about succession during the Bush years. Or imagine talk show hosts hoping for a Bush failure. Or imagine if Vice President Gore had made the statement we were less safe two months into the Bush term as President. The noise factor from the right would have been elevated day after day, ever longer, ever louder, building into crescendos and billows and through amber waves of grain, from sea to shining sea until every traitor was identified and the T-word was shouted from every purple mountain’s majesty.

So I give you my little piece of outrage toward what I believe are actually treasonous and revolutionary statements by some, through this op-ed piece, and yes my craw is feeling better already.

some of the crazy wintnut comments:

Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 5:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Avian fact: Chickens do have craws

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JAFO April 23, 2009 at 5:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

but do crawfish?

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pops April 23, 2009 at 6:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms. Snapp,
Those of you who disliked President Bush seemed to turn a deaf ear to the treasonous statements about HIM from the "left", during his administration. Now, the shoe's on the other foot, and you find it offensive to hear those same statements from the "right". I'd say, personally, that you're reaping what you sow. It's not comfortable, is it, to hear the leader you admire, castigated and blamed for everything from the common cold to the extrinction of the dinosaurs. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing those of you who support President Obama decry the dissent you claim to love.
Yes, I called Mr. Obama "President". I believe it's necessary and right to give him the respect he and his office deserves. I absolutely will NOT stoop to the level to which SOME stooped, and say "he's not my President". He was elected, by our electoral system, and I have no difficulty recognizing he's the leader of our nation. I may not like that, and I may not agree with much of his policy or his opinions and beliefs, but he's STILL my President. I only wish some of you who were so disrespectful of President Bush could have that attitude.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, feeling uncomfy, are we?

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 6:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think there are "yellow-dog" crawfish and I never heard a "why does a crawfish cross the road" joke. It is possible a hungry crawdad would eat fresh bread, but I don't think a self-respecting crawdad would write a letter to the editor about the experience. Also, crawdads claw their way to the top instead of demanding handouts. All in all, I would have to say having a craw would identify with being a chicken.

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dalearch April 23, 2009 at 6:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ginger:

I used to feel sorry for you and people like you that insist on spreading lies and misrepresentations. Now I just think of you as despicable.

As usual, you will probably slink away now that you’ve been challenged. You will probably write something as teacherlady or one of your other aliases.

You are pathetic.

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Orliandor April 23, 2009 at 6:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right on, Ginger. The reason the left was so quiet during Bush's time is that the right wing folks live in fear and carry guns.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Orliandor,
Your comment was, in my opinion, the most idiotic, ignorant and hateful of any posted so far in this forum. Congratulations....you take the cake...

Ms. Snapp shouldn't be castigated for her remarks. I'm sure she feels angered and upset about the way some have vilified President Obama...someone she admires and respects. Those of us who are NOT necessarily fans of Mr. Obama should remember how we felt when President

LDM1982 April 23, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Governor Rick Perry said what he did, because he feels the federal government is meddling in the affairs of the State of Texas. If it had been the last administration meddling in state business, he would have said the same thing. That's the way it is in Texas.

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77cod April 23, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hussien the elected pied piper is a fraud and an empty suit. He has disgraced the United States in Europe and Latin America. He embraces outspoken enemies of our country, he and his Chicago gang have made a mess (intentionally) of our economy. You have the guts and gall to diss President Bush. You my friend are not an American.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pops, this is one of the only times I've ever agreed with what you've said on here, and I wanted to let you know I appreciate it. No one should be belittled for expressing their beliefs. I truly wish that people could remain civil and respectful even when discussing hot-button issues. I've always tried to, but I know I haven't been perfect either.

However, gingersnapp makes valid points. After 9/11 there was such a feeling of crazed patriotism that people who didn't like the decisions made by the Bush administration were scared to say so publicly, and for good reason. In addition to the facts she stated, there was at least one teacher who was fired for wearing a peace sign tee shirt, and there are many other examples of this sort of thing. The closest thing I've seen to that recently is the Ms. California kerfuffle, and she didn't badmouth the president or the administration.

I'd also like to say that I agree with Ms. Darrach. I think it's silly to blame an administration that hasn't even existed for one hundred days yet for problems that existed long before January. We need to encourage our Senators and Representatives to stop sniping away at each other and wasting their time and taxpayer money and work together to help pull us through these difficult times.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's the thing about Governor Perry that bothers me, he's been badmouthing the federal government a lot. A lot. Including saying when asked about secession, "...it might come to that." Secession. From the union.

Meanwhile, while signing a document dealing with the soverenity of Texas and proclaiming the evils of the federal government, he's asking for and getting federal help.

Five days before the tea party protests where he made his statements (which could certainly be considered treason) he asked FEMA to come in and help with wildfires. A month before, he asked for federal troops to help out on the border. He's also asked for another year and a half worth of federal funds to help clean up after hurricanes not too long ago. So...other than all the help he's getting from our government, other than that, down with that oppressive government!

Geeze.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Delarch:

Yes, I am ginger! I'm bookworm! I'm Orliandor! I'm every single peron who says anything good about Obama or his administration because God knows there's only one person in the entire midwest that feels that way!

Look, I know this might be hard for you, but you probably ought to accept the fact that there are a lot of people who think like we do, just as there are a lot of people who think like you do.

Just because there are a lot of more conservative people on here who are saying a lot of the same things doesn't mean I think there's one person with multiple names repeating him/herself. Get over it.

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dalearch April 23, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that people should be free to express their opinions, but not when those opinions are based on lies and misrepresentations that they know or should know to be as such.

For brevity I’ll address one – Rush Limbaugh hoping Obama will fail. Any thinking person knows that he said this in relation to Obama taking us down the road of Socialism – not that he would fail the country entirely.

I was right that ginger would slink away and post as teacherlady or one of her other aliases.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

77cod, again with Hussein? It's his grandfather's name. He was given that middle name in honor of his grandfather. I'm sure he wouldn't have picked it, but hey, I wouldn't have picked mine.

I haven't heard anybody make such a big deal of someone's middle name since around second grade. Grow up.

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xanzzz April 23, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I say bravo Ms. Snapp.

I have zero issues with the dissent being spoken by everyone. I just have complete distaste for the blatant hypocrisy of the people who were full of rage for dissenters of the past who now find dissent to be cool and proper, Sean Hannity being the classic hypocrite. They are a complete joke just like many from the other side who protested bitterly and now think no one should be protesting and we should all get behind our government.

But it is the far right people who wrap all of their causes in the flag and call all not like them immoral and unpatriotic to be scum, immoral and sore losers. Democracy has spoken, you know those words that you wrap yourselves around meant to symbolize American, democracy and freedom. Apparently it is only meant to be a one way street.

Protest all you want but leave the moral superiority and faux superior patriotism out of it.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

xanzzz,
While I agree totally with your post, I ask you to honestly respond....
Would you have posted that exact same post in 2000 or 2004?

Please, be very honest with your response....

Actually, this question would be for teacherlady, gingersnapp, orliandor, etc.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

77cod,
While I understand your feelings, your words are disrespectful and not helpful. They're no different, at all, from the way people on the left talked about President Bush...something I know you didn't appreciate. While you may disagree with President Obama and his policies, I can assure you he has no intention of destroying this country or it's economy. His methods may not be something you agree with, but to be so disrespectful is just as wrong for you as it was for the left when President Bush was in office.

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xanzzz April 23, 2009 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pops,

There is always going to be hypocrisy of when there are differences of opinion where when one gets their way the other complains and the other does not want to listen to it then the exact same thing happens when the other gets their way.

But what Ms. Snapp pointed out is not the hypocrisy of this specific human behavior as much as the level it goes to. The past decade in which I voted once for Bush has not had equality no matter how much a far right one wants to believe in terms of the personal attacks of calling people one disagrees with immoral and unpatriotic.

This has been a political campaign tactic by the neocons to package their beliefs by trying to tie them into God and patriotism. The Tea Party being a classic example as the protest could not just be about what one believes and thinking the other is wrong but going that extra step of acting like they are morally and more patriotic because of their opinions.

So sorry to answer your question I see no equality of the way the dissent and the attack on the dissent has been treated. Yes, there were some that went down the same morality zealot like path but that was individuals that were not align with anything. But as Ms. Snapp wrote most of the dissenters on years gone by did not come close to the garbage coming out of the many mouths of many prominent, organized and some elected officials.

Sorry, but I did not see succession talk by a Governor or people calling al the Tea Party protestors immoral American hating human beings. As Ms. Snapp example was so perfect. The Dixie Chicks practically lost their careers and had weeks of media coverage and public outrage by saying they were embarrassed by President Bush but a Governor of a State can openly talk about succession and basically nothing?

Sorry but the far right is not being met with the same immoral and delusional tactics as they have and continue to use.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Xanzzz,
I am NOT excusing the Texas governor for his remarks. They are, in fact, way out of line. Personally, I'd agree that had a Democratic official said the same things only a few years ago, he'd have been invited to leave office...forcefully. I don't agree, though, that the same level of invective demonstrated currently by some on the right is higher or more vile than what was said/done by the left during the past administration. I know my memory isn't as good as it USED to be, but it's not so bad that I can't remember the hateful, nasty, ignorant things said over the past 8 years.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Xanzzz,
I'd even go a bit further....
Ever since the DC's said and did what they did, I have refused to listen to any of their music. I won't listen to it on the radio, and I refuse to buy any of it. That's my method of reprisal for their words/actions. I'll be fair: if the Texas governor puts an album together, I'll boycott it, too!!

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For the edification of ginger & xanzzz:

Succession is the act or process of following in order or sequence. (It is not to be confused with secession, the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or political entity).

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Dixie Chicks ruined career?

From Wikipedia:

"The Dixie Chicks are a country music group, comprising Martie Maguire, Emily Robison and lead singer Natalie Maines. Together, they have sold over 36 million albums as of March 2009, making them the highest-grossing female band in the US."

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pops April 23, 2009 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, you DO understand, Wright-Winger,
Since I've refused to buy their albums, it's really damaged them!!

I do think it's interesting that some in this forum are insisting we shouldn't blame the current president for the problems our country is experiencing. I would agree with that....however, I seem to remember President Bush being blamed for many, MANY things in the early stages of HIS presidency. Did he or did he not "inherit" those issues from HIS predecessor? Look, folks...you can't have it both ways.

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dalearch April 23, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WW:

There you go throwing out facts again and ruining it for the libs.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WW, Gingersnapp said that the Dixie Chicks nearly lost their carrers, not that they didn't, so saying that the backlash against the Dixie Chicks didn't happen because they overcame it and continued to be popular simply isn't true.

Here are a couple of news articles that describe the backlash. The result was immediate and long-lasting, but temporary.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/14/dixie.chicks.reut/

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,440070,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5348306.stm

I realize that what she said was unpatriotic and unwise in the pollitical atmosphere of that time and I'm not saying that the people who were upset didn't have a right to be. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in the argument.

Pops, I'm not disagreeing that Bush was blamed for things that weren't his fault and I've said so before. However, nobody can change that now. We could learn from that and drop the blame game now, though.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WW, I like you in spite of myself. You usually fight fair, though you've said a couple really, really mean things to me, and you're funny.

Dalearch, I would appreciate it if you'd stop saying gingersnapp and I are the same person. It's simply not true and though it may not bother her, I does bother me. I'm my own person with my own thoughts and opinions and simply because I joined recently doesn't mean that I'm an alias for someone else.

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The backlash, such as it was, against the Chickies was because Maines made the derogatory comments about President Bush while on an OVERSEAS tour, much the same as Jimmy Carter and The Obama's recent uncalled-for cheap shots against former President Bush on their out-of-the country trips.

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Glad teacherlady that you didn't get it stuck in your craw as ginger did. Got to thinking even more about ginger's original rant. She said she might have got a chicken bone stuck in her craw. That sounds somewhat Dahmeresque to me.

What did I say to you that was mean? Just because I compared you and your ilk to some characters in Macbeth?

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are the same wright-winger that called me wiccan and hoped I wasn't really a teacher, right? I'd say those qualify as pretty mean. I enjoy an occasional Shakespearian reference, and to be honest I was impressed with yours.

Having said that, I feel like I could have a discussion with you that dealt with facts and logic and not so much with the name calling and sarcasm, etc. And as I said before, you make comments that make me smile. You're alright...for now.

I'm warming up to pops a tad too.

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Wright_Winger April 23, 2009 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I'll never live that down.

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

*grin* You asked. I'll never mention it again...unless you ask again. Or you say something else that's mean. Or I just forget. :)

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dalearch April 23, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Teacherlady:

If you indeed are not ginger, I apologize profusely.

I can’t blame you for being upset. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to confuse me with her either.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, teacherlady, one of the things I have to work on is being TOO passionate about things. What I do, all too often, is shoot from the hip, and then, later, go back and read what I just wrote. Sometimes, I am appalled and horrified at how hateful it sounds. I'm TRYING, very hard, to take just a bit more time, and measure what I write, and not be so harsh or judgemental. I find I get my point across, AND I seem to be able to stay on friendlier terms at the same time!

I agree....most of the time, I find if I stop and look at your position/opinions from a slightly different vantage point, I can see your point. I may still not agree, but I CAN sometimes at least understand your point. That said, I need to be slower, and more measured, in my responses.

I also feel that were we to meet, for real, and to have some of these discussions face to face, the misunderstandings that sometimes seem to be rampant in the written message would not occur.

As I said in my other post...with consideration of all my previous posts to you...I have offered a "buried hatchet"...

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teacherlady April 23, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Consider the hatchet buried, pops. I truly appreciate the things you said and could say many of the same things myself. There are times I see the other side of an issue in a new way or read a really well-thought argument, and that has made some of the less savory things said on here bearable.

I think we've made progress today in terms of being able to have more civil discussions on here, at least, I truly hope so. I love debating current events, especially the one's I'm passionate about and I understand that people get hot under the collar, but it would be great to really be able to have adult conversations. That's really all I wanted when I joined this thing--that and making fun of It's Your Call.

Dalearch, thanks for the apology, but did you really need to take another shot at gingersnapp in the process? Just don't bring it up any more and I'll stay off your case about it.

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pops April 23, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

xanzzz,
I was interested in your remarks regarding Sean Hanity, and how you consider him a "hypocrite". Would you be interested in using that same label on the so-called "journalists" on MSNBC?

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dalearch April 23, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Teacherlady:

“don't bring it up any more and I'll stay off your case about it.”

Boy, I thought I was going to lose sleep over that one.

I’ve read through some of your posts & am thinking I may have apologized too quickly.

Some of the goofy things you say could be attributed to ginger. I just can’t imagine two people thinking like that.

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Orliandor April 23, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mmmmm...cake.

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xanzzz April 23, 2009 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pops,

Several news programs have showed many clips of footage from the past years with Hannity ripping protesters and those who spoke out strongly against the government as anit-American. Of course we all know that Hannity has not looked at those himself or anyone else who does not like that fact. You cannot be morally right and not answer for this whether you’re Hannity or his supporters. If protesting against your government is wrong then it is wrong or not.

As I wrote before there is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides. My beef and I do disagree with you is the far right wraps theirs beliefs in the flag and points at others as being evil. I do not see that on the same organized level on the other side.

There is a huge difference between ripping on a government leader then ripping on the people who support them by calling them immoral and unpatriotic. The left attacked Bush and Cheney with viciousness. The right attacks everyone.

For all the Dixie Chicks were not fried by the right in this country noting their record sales. Might be because they turned out to be right!

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gingersnapp April 24, 2009 at 12:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Good grief Charlie Brown, I don't have time to refresh the page here every five minutes like some here. I apoligize to all those here who have become me!!!! Really people get a life. Make your point and go on.

I have two gardens to take care of. I make my own bread every day. I have about a hundred tomato and pepper plants I started in January and have been babying to live until they can get into the garden. I have my early garden to keep watered and fed and my May garden to get in.

I write about 6 letters to the editor a year if that and have made 168 comments in two years. I don't have time to be here like most of you and you should get lives beyond the News Press too.

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